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Right: Domenic Priore with Ed "Big Daddy" Roth's Surfite. Photo by Brian Chidester
Intro:
E.C.: Back when you were first putting together Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMILE!, did you ever imagine that you would one day be authoring a follow-up book related to Smile? And parallel to that, did you one day truly anticipate Smile reaching this state of release? Domenic: I figured that someone else would do a book on Smile, perhaps not as thorough in its collection of memorabilia, but, you know, with more inside information from Van Dyke Parks, especially, and perhaps even Brian Wilson. You know, if there were ever a box set of vintage Smile material, there has to be a booklet for that. So I saw potential for another book on Smile, and I'm glad I got to do one in a literary form some 17 years later. The interview I did in this book with Van Dyke Parks is what I'd always dreamed of doing in the first book. But I've learned a lot about writing, and the world, since I first released a Smile book when I was 28 years old. I'm 45 now... E.C.: Unlike Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMILE!, this new book (Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece) has the participation of several key players in the Smile lore: Brian Wilson, Van Dyke Parks, and Danny Hutton – to name a few. What was that like to be dealing with some of these kingpins on a one-on-one basis? I realize you had spent some quality time with Brian Wilson back in the late-'80s, and you had interviewed Van Dyke Parks circa-Orange Crate Art, but now the field has obviously changed. Is the change palpable when talking with these two men? Domenic: First off, Brian Wilson did the foreword, which I really appreciated, and that foreword talks about Smile in as much detail as I've seen in any newspaper or magazine article interview with him recently (except, I thought he gave it up o.k. to Sylvie Simmons in Mojo). Van Dyke Parks and I have actually become like friends over the years, which is unusual because I'd say his work -- with words -- has been a huge influence on me. This happened once before when I met, and became friends, with Gene Clark of the Byrds. Gene was my favorite of the Byrds, I loved all his post-Byrds work, just absorbed the hell out of it... Dillard & Clark, Roadmaster, all of that. Then, after a few years I'd moved on to absorbing other artists, then BANG, Gene is my buddy and he's calling me to ask me if I wanted to be on the list at shows he was doing. When you've gone through a whole thing with someone's music, just become the music, in a sense... and then the person who made the music is suddenly a phone's reach away... that is almost like a personal responsibility. What I mean by that is that its easy to forget that the music is not the man (although the music does consume the man too). For example, I don't think I'd want to hang around with Chuck Berry, but hell if I don't live for the man's music. Fortunately,both Gene Clark and Van Dyke Parks were great guys to become friends with, because they are both as graceful as the sounds that they make.
Van Dyke Parks really has come to grow more comfortable with the subject of Smile, and I hope that my new book is a forum for him to speak about it. I'm really not sure about Brian Wilson, because that is best summed up by my interview with Darian Sahanaja in the later part of the book. You have to really read what Darian has to say, because you can see that with Brian Wilson, it wasn't easy at first, but it came out of him once the confidence about Smile music began to show up again. Remember, Brian was a part of that Beach Boys Inc. crowd and from his interviews over the years, it seemed that he'd began to belive all the negativity that Mike Love had put out about it. I address Love's conservative, right wing attitude, and how Smile came from the other side of the Civil War in 1966... and when I say Civil War, I truly mean the current polarization of red and blue ideology, which during the '60s, was called a "generation gap." Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece really tries to get to what the music says, and Van Dyke Parks is excellent in the way he displays, through his interview, the issues at hand during 1966, and what Brian Wilson wanted to write about at that time. He makes that very clear... that Smile is what Brian wanted to write about in 1966.
All of my interview clips from Brian Wilson are vintage, except for one he gave to Sylvie Simmons at Mojo and a couple from the Art Fein's Poker Partytelevision show here in Los Angeles, which I was involved in arranging in 1988. I think Brian is still not in the mood to elaborate about Smile the way he did to the CBS News cameras and Jules Siegel in late 1966. I've also heard Brian say in recent years that Pet Sounds wasn't a good album because he was stoned the whole time he did it. So the vintage interviews really had to do, if the story was going to be told with any accuracy to what Smile was about when it was written in 1966.
Oddly enough, I was talking to my friend Al Burton, who in the '60s produced the Teen Age Fair, and the television shows Hollywood a Go Go, 9th Street West, Malibu U and several others. Al told me he had the Beach Boys on his show several times in the '61/'62 era on Wink Martindale's P.O.P. Dance Party (the Beach Boys did "Surfin'," the Belairs did "Mr. Moto" on the same episode) and Pickwick Dance Party (hosted by Bob Eubanks), and of course the Beach Boys came to the 1963 and 1964 Teen Age Fair to sign albums (not sure if they played the Fair). Anyway, I gave a copy of the new book to Al, and he read it in one night. He said that even in 1961-1964, he knew that Brian Wilson was an extremely talented young man, but that you couldn't tell that by talking to him. Brian Wilson never came off as suave or sophisticated, but then you'd hear his music, and it was incongruent to the guy you met... that's Al's take on the whole thing. Now I'll add that Beach Boys Today!, for example, which was cut in 1964, is very sophisticated and suave. Now bump that up a couple of years, to the heart of the Folk-Rock thing, again, the Byrds are changing everything, including the way the Beatles approach recording their next album (Rubber Soul). Zappa and his Mothers of Invention are happening in L.A., the Doors are happening in L.A. - the Byrds are inventing Psychedelia with "Eight Miles High" -- and Van Dyke Parks is helping them do it on "5D (Fifth Dimension)”, Brian Wilson isn't going to be writing about teeny tiny itty bitty polka dot bikini buddy rider with all that kind of thing goin' on.
E.C.: Early promotion for the book originally had the word “official” in the title, which you had the company change. Obviously, the Smile story has always been in Brian’s favor, so to speak, but I guess I’m asking a two-fold question: (a) how has your new research solidified the lore as we know it? And (b) in your heart of hearts, do you think a Mike Love testimony would add anything to the story, perhaps make it more well-rounded? Domenic: Guess what? The book title is not "official story" first of all, that was a mistake by the company that I had killed out. I hate "official," sounds pretty fucking military to me... Tell you what, Mike got his version of the story out on that lame DVD called Endless Harmony, and his bogus TV movies. He's made a habit of abusing Brian Wilson over the years, he's had his say on prime-time, Network television, no less... Smile really has little to do with Mike Love, and frankly, this is a guy who fucked up royal and refuses to admit it. He's made a habit of abusing Brian Wilson over the years, he's had his say, and that's it. I wanted this book to be about the music, not Mike Love's stupid mistakes. They are listed in the book because they help to show how Smile fell apart, but Mike is not much a part of how the music came together. Frank Holmes can tell you more about that, and I've allowed Frank, Danny Hutton, Van Dyke Parks and Darian Sahanaja the space to do so... plus Brian Wilson, in vintage interviews from before Mike's abuse set in to become a Beach Boys Inc. parrot job. I only spoke to musicians and artists this time... And of course, a credible journalist, which Paul Williams represents during the Smile times. E.C.: With this groundbreaking book, people are once again revisiting ideas expressed in your previous book – to wit: the idea that “Heroes and Villains” was intended as a double-sided single, with a Part I and Part II. How is a bit of lore like this more fully fleshed-out than in the 1st book? It seems that the 1st book put a bit of this information out there and tantalized the fans, but now this new book apparently bolsters these ideas a bit more concretely. Do you mind speaking to that a little more? Domenic: Yeh, well, the information, as you said, was in the first book, but apparently some fans want to play "king of the mountain" and spend a lot of time knocking me down. So this time, I did my best to spell things out very clearly for this type of fan. But I did so without compromising the story line, I hope. The "Heroes and Villains" info came from Chuck Britz, the engineer at Western Studio. Other information about "Surf's Up" came from Stephen J. Desper, the guy who assembled it for release in 1971. Despite that, these people came around and disputed things that came directly from Desper and Britz. To me, that's always been psycho, but that's the internet, full of people who have no editorial responsibility, and no life, spouting off every day and trying to be a big shot. It's so High-School. E.C.: Further to my last question – to sort of get this one “out in the open” – there seems to be some back-and-forth contention about your book in that certain theories, while valid, appear to be presented as fact. Your book approaches the minutiae of Smile that hasn’t been put in book form before. You’ve also hit upon the famous Mike-bashes-“Heroes and Villains” tape: “...childish rant by Mike Love on the 'nuclear disaster' he perceived Heroes & Villains to be, recorded during the Lei'd In Hawaii rehearsals…” Here is one of those mysteries I’m hoping you can touch upon a little more here. There’s a strong belief that this outtake was a scripted affair by Brian, and thus Mike really shouldn’t be blamed for this. What say you? Domenic: Well, the thing is, you have to ask yourself, "was this Brian Wilson's idea, to diss on “Heroes & Villains" and of course the logical thing is that Brian most likely participated in this recording to appease Mike Love. It's pretty obvious that the whole episode is just a further example of the levels of abuse that began around that time. E.C.: Another point to address: your book states that “Look” was always intended to be an instrumental, but that changed when VDP added lyrics in 2004. However, there was a Beach Boys vocal session for “Look” in October 1966. Now, is this a contradiction that was born from one of the participant’s recent memories? Domenic: With "Look," what you don't have a record of from the '60s is the existence of any lyrics. The misunderstanding here is simple: Beach Boys fans continue to assume that a vocal session means that there were lyrics. That's often not the case with Smile material. You can't just meld the words "vocal" and "lyric" and assume they mean the same thing. If there are vocal parts with no lyrics (including word or wordless chants), then that can be part of an instrumental recording. For example, "Moon Dawg" from the Surfin' Safari album has great Beach Boys vocals on it, but the fact remains that "Moon Dawg" is an instrumental... a cover they were doing of the Gamblers' 1960 L.A. hit (and certainly one of the first Surf instrumentals, well over a year before Dick Dale & his Del-Tones released "Let's Go Trippin'," let alone the Belairs with "Mr. Moto" prior to that or the Frogmen's "Underwater"). "Love to Say Dada" was just one Smile recording that didn't have lyrics, but had great vocals. Please, let us not confuse "vocals" with the presence of a lyric, as far as sessions go. E.C.: To get away from the Smile minutiae for a sec, what were your thoughts on the Beautiful Dreamer documentary? How do you position your book in relation to that particular documentary? Domenic: Beautiful Dreamer did a great job showing how this moment was so important to Brian Wilson's life. The primary difference between David Leaf's film and my book is that David's film seems to contend that Smile was not the right music for the Beach Boys to release at the time... Brian even says that, and has been saying that for years. But I contend that sentiment, though it may be Brian's, lacks confidence, and that Smile was the most logical recording for the Beach Boys to release at the time, and that because Smile didn't come out, the group tanked. Tanked, like, hit bottom. Smile would have kept the Beach Boys at the top of their game, right up there with the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and emergent groups like the Jimi Hendrix Experience, the Doors and that bunch... those groups remained dominant on the F.M. dial for years... you can't say that about the Beach Boys... and the non-release of Smile is the reason the Beach Boys became passé in the second half of the '60s... and beyond. That is the one thing where Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece differs from Beautiful Dreamer... the rest of it is spot on. I guess you can say that David Leaf also took Brian Wilson's story on a micro level, and that I examined Smile more in the larger context of Pop, Pop Culture and the sociology of the times. What I try to get at in the book, actually, is not so much about Brian Wilson himself, but what his work was trying to get across. I truly feel that what Smile had to say in 1966/1967 is 100% valid in contemporary times, and that is central to the story, as I lay it out in my book. I really am very happy that Brian gave it the go, and did the thing, got it out, so that kind of analysis of the music and the songs can be pondered. Like Frank Holmes says in the last line... "this is supposed to keep people thinking"... And today, with Americans electing a president who doesn't believe in science in the name of "God," it is really interesting to read about how during the '60s, all of these artists were dealing directly with spirituality, and we can see how that led them to be adamant about politics on the left... things like the ecology and so forth. Man, Smile is incredible in its awareness of the connections between nature and spirituality. You'd have to say that the music Brian provided was definitely cosmic.
E.C.: In researching this book, and interviewing the participants, were there any little “mindblowers” for you? I mean, here’s a guy (you!) who has devoted a big chunk of his life to the pursuit of Smile, and yet I’m wondering if you ever had one of those moments where suddenly some aspect of Smile and the research thereof seemed ‘new’ to you all over again? Domenic: Yeh, well, just finding out that there is this important tape of "Surf's Up" out there from 1967. One that we haven't heard, and apparently, one that is not the 1971 reconstruct. Other than that, just listening to Van Dyke Parks talk openly about Smile in such great detail was pure joy. E.C.: One of the accolades given your book is how you’ve managed to position Smile into a mood of the times back then, in a burgeoning L.A. scene, where Smile was part of the fabric of other things happening. Was this purposeful on your part (setting that tone), or did it just fall together in the line of research? Domenic: I'd say it was in the line of research, because the first book I put together, really, after Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMILE! was the still-unreleased Riot On Sunset Strip: Rock ‘n’Roll’s Last Stand In Hollywood 1965/1966. So in doing that, the environment that begat Smile was easy to understand. Remember, the Byrds' Mr. Tambourine Man influenced Rubber Soul, which influenced Pet Sounds, which in turn influenced Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. O.k., Smile never came out, but Forever Changes by Love did, and as I've said before in Ear Candy (February 2001) that is an album that has the same quality level as Smile, from L.A. in 1967. The problem with Beach Boys fans, or Brian fans, who are going micro on Brian Wilson or the Beach Boys all the time, is they are not acknowledging the flow of '60s music. Perhaps the group of people who discovered Brian Wilson through Alternative Rock understand that flow, but people who are purely Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fans miss all the excitement surrounding them in the Los Angeles of the 1960s. Los Angeles was really this much different place during the mid-'60s, and Smile is a product of that. Hell, it was David Crosby of the Byrds who first brought Van Dyke Parks up to Brian Wilson's house... and what did Brian play? "Sloop John B.," basically their first real stab at doing a Folk-Rock tune ("South Bay Surfers" excluded... sort of a parody and also not a single). So Byrds people are bringing Van Dyke Parks over to Brian Wilson's house... and Brian Wilson is well aware of Bob Dylan and the movement that has come over Pop by 1965. Brian Wilson, unlike Elvis Presley, for example, was not living inside some out-of-touch bubble during the mid-'60s, he was taking it all in and applying it to his own work. That's a big part of what this book is about. He was not isolated at that time, and I tried to make this point with the second and third pictures I used in the center photo spread... Brian outside of Ciro's on the Sunset Strip, Brian with all these people at Los Angeles International Airport... the TWA hallway... Brian was interacting with other artists at the time, and Danny Hutton was actually a big part of that, as the interview with him sort of spells out. Again, this is where my book differs from the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, to me, it’s essential to go macro, not micro, in understanding where the art itself came from. Brian didn't create in a vacuum during the Smile period. E.C.: In reading your book, one is left with the impression that at times VDP and Brian were not always on the same page direction-wise with Smile. This certainly sheds new light on the previously-held idea that Smile was, in some senses, mapped out. What are your thoughts on this? Domenic: Smile was mapped out by Brian Wilson, but again, the question itself is looking for black & white in a very colourful environment. Improvisation took place, but the general idea was there. Van Dyke makes it very clear that he was trying to facilitate the direction that Brian wanted to go, and in some parts, especially "The Elements," you know, there again, lyrics weren't as big a part of that. Van Dyke worked on the lyrics to "Wind Chimes" and "Vega-Tables," but the water and fire sections... and even part of the air section... were not verbal, they were pictorial. From what I can tell, Van Dyke most likely was not at the "Fire" session, for example. But I do think those guys worked in harmony a lot on the music, and Van Dyke really brought a lot of very interesting things to the project. I've always felt that in Van Dyke Parks, Brian Wilson finally had a collaborator that gave back to him as much as Brian was putting out. Van Dyke could come up with brilliant stuff to match, and that's why Smile stands out for me. E.C.: With more research and time under your belt now, how do you account for the strange creature that was Smiley Smile? And in tandem with that, how do you reconcile The Beach Boys’ resistance to Smile (something more organized and polished) but then getting behind Smiley Smile? Domenic: There's nothing new to find out about Smiley Smile, really. I mean, Derek Taylor's promotional writing about going back up to the house and finishing Smiley Smile after the hang-ups of Smile is really interesting in context with the story now. It's like, you can see Derek almost dismissing what Smile would have been for the purpose of promotion. I also can see, all the more clear, how that announcement of Smile being "scrapped" was premature, though prophetic. I think at some point, Derek was no longer taking his cues from Brian Wilson, but from Mike Love. That's something that's interesting to analyze, beginning with that "scrapped" bit. Of course later, in NME during 1975, Derek tells the real story as he saw it happen. (Derek Taylor's promotinal writing from 1967, and his later 1975 explanation, can be read on pages 191, 201-202 and 262-267 of Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMILE!). One of the big deals was Mike's resistance to "Surf's Up," which of course, is not on Smiley Smile... then in 1968 Brian told Earth News Radio that because of the decision to not release "Surf's Up" in 1967, "the group nearly split up for good" over that. E.C.: I’d like to get your opinion on the transition from Dumb Angel to Smile: how do you account for this? Was it in name-only, or was it something a little deeper, in your estimation? Domenic: Ah, that's something... didn't Brian say it was "more cheery"? I think that Dumb Angel is a philosophy, but Smile is more of a purpose. The album did have this sense of purpose... and remember, Pet Sounds was brooding and "didn't sell" in the States or whatever. I think that part of Smile has to do with making something more upbeat after Pet Sounds, definitely. I'd have to say that the name change was probably something that came from Brian's feelings as he worked on the project. I do like Smile better than Dumb Angel, myself, and Van Dyke said something like that in the book too... E.C.: Lastly, now that we have a finished Smile, your new book, and Beautiful Dreamer, do you think Smile has reached a kind of closure? Or is there more to be mined? And for the diehards, do you ever foresee a release of an official Capitol boxset of Smile sessions? Domenic: Of course there's more to be mined. Do we just forget about the beauty of the original tapes? I do think Capitol Records, Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and Mike Love will eventually come together and celebrate the creation of this thing, yes. "Yes"; that's the focus of the Beatles' Yellow Submarine movie, kind of like the word "smile" itself. That's my favorite Yellow Submarine poster from the period... real big letters. YES.
Post Script:
EAR CANDY:
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Right: Domenic Priore leaning in a Tiki direction, Disneyland, 1965
Right: Huntington Beach sunset, 1970, photo by Domenic Priore.